Jay McHugh, YOUR SendOutCard Mentor (SendOutCards-Appreciation Marketing Expert)

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Rainmaker
1,768,146
Lyn Sims
Schaumburg, IL
Real Estate Agent Retired

They have been known to meddle .... they have been know to blow up items just to prove their worth ... 

Sure, I've given'em hell right back. It's ok if we are not pals at the closing.

I don't know what a 'smoke cert' is. 

Aug 25, 2017 01:03 PM
Rainmaker
4,579,620
Wayne Martin
Wayne M Martin - Chicago, IL
Real Estate Broker - Retired

If the fee is for an endorsement and the original is required for its issuance and you fail to provide it,  or advise others not to provide it, you may be assuming the liability. The rules may be silly, but they are to be followed.

Aug 25, 2017 12:38 PM
Ambassador
3,407,037
Anna Banana Kruchten CRS, Phoenix Broker
HomeSmart Real Estate BR030809000 - Phoenix, AZ
602-380-4886

Jay we don't deal with attorneys here (AZ) with contracts or closings so it's rare we need an attorney.  A question maybe once in a while but that's it.

Aug 25, 2017 03:52 PM
Rainmaker
5,768,176
Ron and Alexandra Seigel
Napa Consultants - Carpinteria, CA
Luxury Real Estate Branding, Marketing & Strategy

Jay,

Although attorneys are not there for our closing in CA, they are around when it comes to reviewing leases.  My hackles rise the moment they say, "I am not a deal breaker, I am a deal maker!"  Seriously, we have worked with some of the very best attorneys in commercial real estate in Los Angeles, and I would recommend them in a heartbeat...like with everything else they are good ones, and then there are those who are a royal pain.  A

Aug 25, 2017 02:42 PM
Rainmaker
947,191
Candice A. Donofrio
Next Wave RE Investments LLC Bullhead City AZ Commercial RE Broker - Fort Mohave, AZ
928-201-4BHC (4242) call/text

Quite fortunately, we do not have attorney closings in the great state of Arizona. However, as a CRE broker I do have to deal with attorneys frequently. Rarely do they hose our deals. The only time there is a problem is if it's an out-of-state attorney who does not completely understand our tribal customs. Which kinda sounds like what you're dealing with. It's unfortunate when anyone does not defer to the one with the knowledge. Personally, I'm much happier dealing with attorneys than banks any day of the week. I'd rather sick the attorneys on them.

Aug 25, 2017 01:12 PM
Rainmaker
4,505,696
Nina Hollander, Broker
Coldwell Banker Realty - Charlotte, NC
Your Greater Charlotte Realtor

Our attorneys here are pretty much nothing more than settlement agents, so it's rare I need to push back at them. And if they are not performing, I simply fire them and move on.

Aug 25, 2017 01:05 PM
Rainmaker
916,348
Annette Lawrence , Palm Harbor, FL 727-420-4041
ReMax Realtec Group - Palm Harbor, FL
Making FLORIDA Real Estate EZ

"....spoiling the hard work of agents...."

I would never limit this list to attorneys but include the 10 other parties who can find relevance by sabotaging a deal.

EXAMPLE FROM TODAY

Lender located in Panhandle of Florida has buyer who select a condo in my area. Things progress and we have to extend contract one week to close TODAY. But lender goes silent. When is the closing day and time?

Buyer does not know what to do and lender will not talk to buyer or listing agent to discover the cause. Escalation confirmed lender attempted no communication with buyer this week. THE WEEK OF CLOSING!!!

King Tut we discover, assigned this mortgage activity to another mortgage broker licensed in my area without advising or disclosing to the buyer, who is their client.

This lender will spoil the work of two agents, the duress of the buyer and lost opportunity and increased cost for the seller.

Don't get me started on Inspectors in search of relevance.

However, be aware attorneys will be instrumental in post NAR real estate reality. Don't shoot them all. We will need a few to keep real estate changing ownership.

 

Aug 25, 2017 12:52 PM
Rainmaker
4,799,732
Gabe Sanders
Real Estate of Florida specializing in Martin County Residential Homes, Condos and Land Sales - Stuart, FL
Stuart Florida Real Estate

Most attorneys don't react well to criticism from Realtors, so I get my brother in law (a circuit judge) to help me educate them and show them the light.

Aug 26, 2017 06:22 AM
Rainmaker
3,386,578
Scott Godzyk
Godzyk Real Estate Services - Manchester, NH
One of the Manchester NH's area Leading Agents

The good thing here in NH it is rare for a alwyer to get involved, when they do they often make a mess. I will push back when needed

Aug 26, 2017 04:10 AM
Rainmaker
1,559,728
Inna Ivchenko
Barcode Properties - Encino, CA
Realtor® • GRI • HAFA • PSC Calabasas CA

Here in CA, we do not need to deal with attorneys. That makes me very happy. 

Aug 26, 2017 01:38 AM
Ambassador
4,316,415
Praful Thakkar
LAER Realty Partners - Andover, MA
Andover, MA: Andover Luxury Homes For Sale

Jay McHugh - you got a good point.

I am fortunate in this regard.

Aug 25, 2017 09:49 PM
Ambassador
2,609,588
Fred Griffin Florida Real Estate
Fred Griffin Real Estate - Tallahassee, FL
Licensed Florida Real Estate Broker

  Attorneys here act as Closing agents.  

Aug 25, 2017 07:38 PM
Rainmaker
538,994
Dave Halpern
Dave Halpern Real Estate Agent, Inc., Louisville, KY (502) 664-7827 - Louisville, KY
Louisville Short Sale Expert

I have very few problems with real estate attorneys meddling or screwing up closings. On the other hand, divorce, bankruptcy and probate attorneys march to a beat of a different drummer.

Aug 25, 2017 06:46 PM
Ambassador
3,987,010
Debbie Reynolds, C21 Platinum Properties
Platinum Properties- (931)771-9070 - Clarksville, TN
The Dedicated Clarksville TN Realtor-(931)320-6730

Thank goodness we do closings with title companies and don't have the big legal egos getting in the way.

Aug 25, 2017 05:27 PM
Rainmaker
1,361,645
Thomas J. Nelson, REALTOR ® e-Pro CRS RCS-D Vets
Big Block Realty 858.232.8722 - La Jolla, CA
& Host of Postcards From Success Podcast

Not a West Coast  problem, Realtors do all the the work here, attorneys are for probate, trust and estate sales only-mostly.

Aug 25, 2017 05:10 PM
Rainmaker
1,673,215
Sandy Padula and Norm Padula, JD, GRI
HomeSmart Realty West - Carlsbad, CA
Presence, Persistence & Perseverance

Sounds like they have been having lots of laughs at their Bar Meetings at your expense. Good for you in sticking up for your clients.

Aug 25, 2017 04:47 PM
Ambassador
5,763,754
Bob Crane
Woodland Management Service / Woodland Real Estate, KW Diversified - Stevens Point, WI
Forestland Experts! 715-204-9671

Sometimes attnys need a little schooling on the law.

Aug 25, 2017 02:30 PM
Rainmaker
610,260
Lynnea Miller
Bend Premier Real Estate - Bend, OR
Premier Real Estate Service in Central Oregon

We don't deal with attorneys in Oregon which makes closings much, much simpler. We do have issues sometimes with out of state lenders, however, expecting items which are not required in our state, such as termite inspections. We have to educate them through the course of the deal.

Aug 25, 2017 01:36 PM
Rainmaker
850,572
Olga Simoncelli
Veritas Prime, LLC dba Veritas Prime Real Estate - New Fairfield, CT
CONSULTANT, Real Estate Services & Risk Management

It's good to know the law.

Aug 26, 2017 03:34 PM
Rainer
409,567
David M. Dwares
Title Professionals Corp. - Fort Lauderdale, FL
Title guy with a broker license

So what is the objection to bringing the original certificate of compliance to closing?  A little inconvenience?  Unfortunately, with technology these days, a document can be changed or manipulated and a PDF of a changed smoke cert would open the closing agent to liability if he or she relied on it for closing.

For those who aren't aware, Massachusetts requires a "smoke certificate" issued by the local fire department showing that a property has working smoke detectors.  I haven't practiced in Massachusetts in a while, but I believe it is good for 60 days.  An unscrupulous seller or agent could change the date of an expired one and email a PDF copy to the closing attorney.

All it takes is one bad actor and policy is enacted that affects everyone else.

I suggest asking the attorney in advance if they require the original.

Aug 26, 2017 01:11 PM
Rainmaker
1,431,861
Ryan Huggins - Thousand Oaks, CA
https://HugginsHomes.com - Thousand Oaks, CA
Residential Real Estate and Investment Properties

I have lunch with my attorneies every week.  We have a good relationship.  Of course, I've known them for 20+ years now even before they went to law school.

 

Plus, we're an escrow state here.

Aug 26, 2017 11:31 AM
Ambassador
3,162,866
Kathleen Daniels, Probate & Trust Specialist
KD Realty - 408.972.1822 - San Jose, CA
Probate Real Estate

Thankfully, we do not use attorneys in transactions in CA. If an attorney is involved it most likley means ... some kind of trouble!

Aug 26, 2017 10:24 AM
Rainmaker
4,270,336
Michael Jacobs
Pasadena, CA
Los Angeles Pasadena 818.516.4393

It's always interesting to see how our business is conducted  in different locations.  For the most part, attorneys are not involved in our transactions as part of the closing process.  

As Alexandra Ron and Alexandra Seigel stated in her answer -- you can find "all kinds" in any business and in life.  It's quite the adventure, isn't it?    

Aug 26, 2017 06:33 AM
Rainmaker
2,055,099
Michael J. Perry
KW Elite - Lancaster, PA
Lancaster, PA Relo Specialist

they do like to throw their weight around

Aug 26, 2017 05:53 AM
Rainmaker
3,071,034
Tony and Suzanne Marriott, Associate Brokers
Serving the Greater Phoenix and Scottsdale Metropolitan Area - Scottsdale, AZ
Haven Express @ Keller Williams Arizona Realty

Anna Banana Kruchten,CRS,CRB,GRI nailed this one!

Aug 26, 2017 05:46 AM
Rainmaker
946,423
Jennifer Mackay
Counts Real Estate Group, Inc. - Panama City, FL
Your Bay County Florida Realtor 850.774.6582

I seldom deal with Lawyers in closings directly - sometimes with estate sales, usually thay're not that terrible to deal with

Aug 26, 2017 05:37 AM
Rainmaker
1,185,164
Sam Shueh
(408) 425-1601 - San Jose, CA
mba, cdpe, reopro, pe

Work at a law office(RE). Often they back off.  I also suggest to the clients not to accept their counter and move to next property.

Aug 25, 2017 08:13 PM
Ambassador
4,570,339
Debe Maxwell, CRS
www.iCharlotteHomes.com | The Maxwell House Group | RE/MAX Executive | (704) 491-3310 - Charlotte, NC
The right Charlotte REALTOR!

I rarely have an issue with an attorney but, wouldn't hesitate to push back if I know I'm right on an issue.

I don't know what a smoke cert is but, here's what I would do:

A. Make a list of those attorneys who require one - be sure the smoke certs are readily available well before Closing, should the attorney ask for one.

B. Provide a list of Closing attorneys who do not require a smoke cert and only recommend those to your buyers.  

C. If you're representing the seller and know this is a potential hold-up, check with the attorney as soon as the buyer determines who the Closing attorney is going to be and refer back to A.

Aug 25, 2017 07:01 PM
Rainmaker
1,466,027
Michael Setunsky
Woodbridge, VA
Your Commercial Real Estate Link to Northern VA

Jay McHugh I haven't had any problems with attorneys. I was doing a commercial lease. My client hired an attorney whose speciality wasn't commercial real estate transcations. His knowledge of contract law got us through to lease signing with few issues.

Aug 25, 2017 04:47 PM
Ambassador
4,747,971
Jeff Dowler, CRS
eXp Realty of California, Inc. - Carlsbad, CA
The Southern California Relocation Dude

We rarely see attorneys involved here. No smoke cert required here but providing smoke and carbon monoxide detectors is requested of sellers in our contract (normally) and sellers acknowledge they will do so. But if no one actually checks them during due diligence...

Aug 25, 2017 04:05 PM
Rainer
359,299
J.R. Schloemer, CRS
Kentucky Select Properties - Louisville, KY

Smoke Detector Affidavits are signed at the closing here, so there is little delay or hiccups for the closing. The attorneys then make copies of them to send with the agents and parties to the transaction. Solves lots of issues if you ask me.

Aug 25, 2017 03:42 PM
Rainmaker
4,347,548
Will Hamm
Hamm Homes - Aurora, CO
"Where There's a Will, There's a Way!"

Really, we do not have that in Denver.

Aug 25, 2017 03:05 PM
Rainmaker
1,708,245
Joe Pryor
The Virtual Real Estate Team - Oklahoma City, OK
REALTOR® - Oklahoma Investment Properties

Join board leadership, give to RPAC, and head to the capital.

Aug 25, 2017 01:43 PM
Rainmaker
7,052,178
Roy Kelley
Retired - Gaithersburg, MD

We do not have a problem with our favorite lawyers in Maryland.

Aug 25, 2017 01:42 PM
Rainmaker
2,692,834
Richie Alan Naggar
people first...then business Ran Right Realty - Riverside, CA
agent & author

The Real Estate pie is always going to be cut-up as many want a slice to eat

Aug 25, 2017 01:07 PM